Author Topic: The Ins and Outs of Subspace Pockets.  (Read 8265 times)

Offline Shippou-chan

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The Ins and Outs of Subspace Pockets.
« on: June 27, 2011, 04:27:19 pm »
The following information comes directly from a PM response to a set of questions posed to Syke, on the nature of subspace pockets and Voidspace.


The IRC chat topic of the minute is the nature of subspace pockets, such as the ones used to store light lifts.

1) Can people be stored or transported via subspace pockets?
No, people and living animals cannot be stored in a subspace pocket, because there isn't a breathable atmosphere inside of them.  You could feasibly transport people that way, but see above.  You can get past that with the use of air pumps/tanks/scrubbers since some, like Collin and Quinn, live in subspace apartments. Wink  Collin and Quinn do not require air in subspace, I have not decided how that one works yet. Wink

2) Can there be multiple openings to the same segment of subspace?
There is only one opening to any area in subspace.

3) Can someone in a subspace pocket exit without aid?
Only those like Collin and Quinn could leave a subspace pocket without outside aid.

4) Do subspace pockets require an outside anchor?
Subspace pockets do require an anchor to access them.  Collin and Quinn ARE anchors.  The others who access subspace are using technology to anchor a small point of subspace.

5) Do Quinn's voidwalker abilities and shivae "going cold" operate the same way?
After some thought, yes, Quinn shares the same ability as Shivae, but she is better outfitted to exist within it. When she is in it, she is physically separated from it.  She doesn't truly exist there just like they don't.  They're just passing through.

General Explanation
Quinn's a dimensional walker and so is Collin, although he does not practice those abilities.  Collin tends to linger in the Dream side of the void, which most of them have access to, but the Void is another side to it.  I envision it in layers.  Everyone visits the Dream on occasion, but you have to die a tragic death to be lost in the Void where you cannot dream.  The void is outside the Dream, but it's also a part of it.

Shivae are more affected by the Void and cannot remain inside of it as long as Quinn can, since she's protected.
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Offline Shippou-chan

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Re: The Ins and Outs of Subspace Pockets.
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2011, 04:57:25 pm »
So my understanding is this, subject to correction by Syke.

Although most are unaware of this, there are several dimensions parallel to "Reality", which may be travelled to from Reality.  It acts as a fourth dimension of sorts, and some are capable of slipping through it.

Now Reality is the edge of this, and past Reality is "voidspace" a collective term for Dreaming and Void.  

Dreaming is the part of voidspace that people often travel to without realizing it, but only for a brief time.  It would seem that you remain anchored in Reality while in Dreamspace,and thus do not 'vanish'.  Dreaming has a breathable atmosphere,and is thus safe for lifeforms.  It is quite possible someone in a coma is lost in Dreaming, albeit not without away back.

Beyond Dreaming is the part of voidspace known as the "Void".  Void does not have a breathable atmosphere and is thus unsuitable for most lifeforms.  The Void is also far enough from Reality that one ceases to remain in Reality and becomes untethered to Reality.  As a result, one cannot return from the Void without aid from an anchoring device in Reality.  Typically, the only way for someone to get lost in the Void is to die.

Now it would seem the Sirac and the Shivae have some sort of ability to remain tethered in Reality while traversing the Void, although to what depth and for how long may vary greatly.  This allows them the ability to go deeper into voidspace at will, and to return as well.

Now technology which makes use of subspace pockets seems to make use of voidspace to store objects via the use of anchoring gadgets which can open and close voidspace.


Death probably sends the person into the Void beyond where anyone can return from.  I suspect even Quinn has limits on how deep she can go in voidspace.  Her friends probably live somewhere on the border of Dreaming and the Void, and their physiology makes that part of voidspace the most viable option.

It seems plausible someone could be smuggled in or out of a secured location via subspace with special gear designed to keep them alive for a short period of time,although it would require a bit of work to do so.

I do wonder if it is plausible for a dimension walker to gain access to subspace pockets without using the one opening for that location.

The term "Reality" is my coining. It does not mean that voidspace or any part of it doesn't exist, only that it is the only part most know about.  A better term is welcomed.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 04:59:22 pm by Shippou-chan »
The Fidael Family - Noiya, Taisha, Rutilus, Rokfriez, and Double-Q
Rifalia Mekiska - Socialite Revolutionary
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Rhiadi Kaelynn - Graduate Level Education Major
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Offline hariman

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Re: The Ins and Outs of Subspace Pockets.
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2011, 09:22:56 pm »
Hmmm.

From the sound of it, the Dream Layer and the Void are two layers stacked upon the reality/physical world of The Cyantian Chronicles. The Physcal World is where we live. The Dream Layer is at least adjacent and accessible during sleep and possibly altered states of consciousness. The Void is the other side of The Dream Layer, and is only accessible via technology/physical ability.

Going from Reality to The Dream Layer is like stepping into the an airlock. Going into the void (and into a subspace pocket, for that matter.) is like opening the airlock on a space ship in vaccuum.

Or maybe the better comparison is stepping into the shallows of a pond in winter for the Dream and falling through ice for the Void. Only the ice is too thick to punch through and the hole freezes over immediately.

Smuggling a person does seem possible. It's just risky. I know subspace accesses can be detected from the early chapters of Campus Safari, but I don't know at what distance or accuracy.

It COULD also be used as a movement ability/weapon. But there are risks to loading yourself into a pocket of subspace and firing the anchor to another place. Not the least of which is the question: E: Can Technomages see out of a subspace pocket? (I already know that Quinn can, but I don't know if Technomages can duplicate the effect.)

Regarding 2: A: How much can an anchor point be moved? I'm pretty sure that we've seen portable storage units, like Celina's wristband. (Used to store a tracker and her staff. I think.) B: But is physical movement of the Anchor device the only possibility?

C:Does teleporting an anchor just move it away from the person in subspace or does the person/pocket of subspace move with it?

Related to this is the question: D: Is there a way to communicate through the borders of the void with our reality? IE: Could a familiar be used as an anchor while the technomage guided it?

Regarding 1: That... sounds like it's going to be important soon. It also sounds like a nasty weapon if used (im)properly.
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Offline Shippou-chan

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Re: The Ins and Outs of Subspace Pockets.
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2011, 10:57:03 pm »
I like the terms Physical/Dream/Void.  They work better than what I had.

At any rate, I do envision it as being real-valued, rather than discreet, but with some fairly clear dividing lines. Each person would thus have a thickness in this dimension, meaning they could be in two layers at once.  But it could very well be discreet layers.  I'm still not quite sure exactly how the subspace pockets would look if you could see them from inside the Void, rather than from the anchor.  They might very well be condensed and largely inaccessible.

Since light lifts seem to be carried with the user, it would seem that the construct within the Void would travel with the anchor.  This could have some useful implications.  It may also mean that subspace pockets are special containers which exist in the Void end.

I suspect teleportation may be a different beast, although I'm not sure.  The instantaneous travel doesn't seem consistent with shivae's ability to "go cold", wherein they travel a distance equal to the distance in the Physical layer.  However, it may be a special application of voidspace mechanics, one which allows a single location in voidspace to be connected to Physical in two places momentarily, allowing the user to slip to the other location.  Of course if this is so, it may mean that subspace pockets used for light lifts are stationary, with the anchor acting as a pointer.

Of course, at this point, it is speculation.  As a matter of fact, it may well be that even the inventors don't know exactly how it all works, although by now, they would be aware of the dangers, and may have put in safeguards.  It may also be possible that anything going into subspace via a device must be in the immediate vicinity, making it harder to force someone into a pocket, or that any legal subspace device has some mechanism to prevent living things from entering its pocket.

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Offline hariman

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Re: The Ins and Outs of Subspace Pockets.
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2011, 12:08:14 am »
Sounds about right.

The catch with my "layer" description is that the metaphysical layers are not like a layer cake. They're more like freezing layers of colored water in a glass.

Each layer blends with the next because as you freeze it, the next layer melts the top of the prior layer. The dream layer is heavily blended with reality on one side, but it's also blended with the void on the other.

I'd guess that the width between the physical and dream layers isn't much more than a shadow's width away. (Although the "Shadow's Width Away" description is actually from the Discworld novels, it fits.) Perhaps the closest I've seen are games like Legacy of Kain, Soul Reaver, where there is an ethereal realm pretty much next to the physical realm.

Although, I'm guessing that the Dream realm in The Cyantian Chronicles is a match for the Physical reality near the "border" but much less defined once you reach the area that intersects with people's minds/souls during dreams and at death.

Or maybe the mere act of existing as a physical being who has been adapted to Void travel and use means that the Void takes on special properties because you're there. The effect is similar to walking on corn starch mixed with water, only Collin, Quinn and the Shivae don't sink because of their abilities.

Wow. I'm really wrapping my head around a pole to come up with explanations. I think I'll leave it here for tonight.
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Offline Dedalous

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Re: The Ins and Outs of Subspace Pockets.
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2011, 03:05:26 pm »
My take on this is that the Void is kind of like the theoretical Base State, Dimension 0.  Kind of a one dimensional mass of energy forming the layers on top.  Void pockets would be nothing more than disturbances in the energy, directly linked to a specific atom, molecule, or signal in the Reality, or our 4 dimensional world.  By manipulating that link, you would be able to put stuff in and pull stuff out through what I would imagine to be something similar to the event horizon of a singularity.  The Dream, as best as I understand it, would be an intersection of Dimension 0 and our dimension.  Where the properties of both would be in evidence.  Not pure energy, not pure reality, but a bit of both.  In this concept, traveling through the void would be nothing more than stepping into the Base State and maneuvering the layers above you.  And the dream State would be your physical minds attempts at interpreting the pure energy forming our universe in a physical way.
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Offline Lillowen

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Re: The Ins and Outs of Subspace Pockets.
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2011, 10:47:59 am »
Well, the Subspace Pocket description from Tiff has ground me a to screeching halt, seeing as it goes deeply into the metaphysical.  I had been expecting something significantly less so, but anything involving dreams and near-death / death / afterlife experiences of any sorts kind of puts the entire thing into neutral and slams on the brakes for me.  From a physics and science end, it's kind of like being told that quantum linking is essentially ringing a deity's telephone in that suddenly you go from the comfortable realm of physics into someone's mythology and bible...  No insult to anyone here, but I think I shan't be touching on this one further research-wise ICly or OOCly, as the subject really moved out from the comfortable zone of science I like to stay in.
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Offline Shippou-chan

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Re: The Ins and Outs of Subspace Pockets.
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2011, 05:28:36 pm »
Well, science deals with the hows.  Religion and philosophy deals with the why.  Different territory.  That said, it might be best not to delve too deeply into this subject in actual roleplay, at leaqst not in any authoritative sense.  Characters speculating would probably be just fine, as they would not "know".

What exactly happens with death isn't very well defined, in the Cyantian universe, or in real life.

I will posit a theory, which may or may not fit Syke's thinking, and may thus be proven false in the future.  Bear in mind, I am not attempting to suggest this is the way it is in real life, nor do I intend to suggest that God in the Cyantian universe does or does not exist, or how He might work.  That is an entirely different issue, despite appearances.  (This all could very well be the way God works, or it might be a natural phenomena).

My theory is this, that each individual might have a physical body, and a sort of spirit or soul.  When you dream, your spirit would be drawn into the Dream, where it could replenish itself (and perhaps the physical body), and might potentially interact with other more ethereal beings.  Waking dreams might be communication from said beings.  A comatose state would be the "soul" choosing to remain in the Dream indefinitely, rather than return.  This could be for a number of reasons.  Death would then be a separation of the "soul" from its physical body, during which time it might be pulled into the Void.  How deep is unknown and could vary.

This hypothesis does leave questions still, but it is an attempt to explain the general logistics of how interaction with voidspace might work.  One of them is how Cyantians figured out how to make use of voidspace anchors to store things, and how such devices (including the container on the void end) are constructed.  If it's based on something like Squid technology, how did THEY discover how to make them?

Going back to the "freezing layers of colored water" model of voidspace, there may be any number of layers, with each becoming more different from higher layers.


POSTSCRIPT -  Dedalus offers an interesting alternative.  If I understand it rightly, You have Physical on one end, Void on the other, a pair of parallel dimensions with entirely different natures.  In between you have Dream, which is an interaction of the two.  What I would add is that Dream would only exist towards the Physical side, since Syke seems to indicate there is voidspace beyond Dream, where one cannot dream.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 05:36:00 pm by Shippou-chan »
The Fidael Family - Noiya, Taisha, Rutilus, Rokfriez, and Double-Q
Rifalia Mekiska - Socialite Revolutionary
Leikki Biegle - Painfully Shy Mouse Mechanic
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Rhiadi Kaelynn - Graduate Level Education Major
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Sharib Akhim - Shelved - Proud and Grumpy Ram (but not a bad guy)
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Offline Tiffany Ross

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Re: The Ins and Outs of Subspace Pockets.
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2011, 05:33:39 pm »
That's kind of funny, because I don't think of it in that way at all. :)

The only way to be lost in the void is to suffer a sudden death that basically shifts some of the physical body WITH the soul, thereby anchoring it to the real world and not allowing it to pass beyond the Void.  While the physical body may leave the physical world, it is still anchored there because it 'belongs' there and only a rare few can do so.  

Subspace, is NOT shared with Dream or Void.  It has nothing to do with them.  It is a specific space that can be accessed from anywhere, but has a definite location that is mapped out with specific coordinates that I guess if anyone wants to explain, would be a fourth dimensional coordinate.  It is literally like a bunch of lockers with infinite locational possibilities.  The dimensions are defined when the pocket is created (and only wolves have this knowledge) and an item called a 'spacer' is set within the pocket to give it a set size and access for anchor and locking. Anyone might be able to find it, but opening it without the proper keys won't work. :)

That should help.  It's not metaphysical at all.

- Tiff

Some things I'll keep to myself so that it doesn't bother people. ;) 
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 05:36:18 pm by Tiffany Ross »

Offline Tiffany Ross

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Re: The Ins and Outs of Subspace Pockets.
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2011, 05:37:09 pm »
The best way to sort through things IS to ask me questions to clarify, because I may not see that I left something out.

Offline Shippou-chan

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Re: The Ins and Outs of Subspace Pockets.
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2011, 05:39:45 pm »
Aaah, well, that solves one nagging problem with everything, trying to relate the two. It probably makes several others a bit less heady as well.

My assumption that voidspace and subspace are related is false.  Thanks Syke.

My new question is which one teleportation utilizes, if either one.

Apologies Syke.  We will try to bring these to you sooner.
The Fidael Family - Noiya, Taisha, Rutilus, Rokfriez, and Double-Q
Rifalia Mekiska - Socialite Revolutionary
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Offline Tiffany Ross

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Re: The Ins and Outs of Subspace Pockets.
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2011, 06:45:52 pm »
Teleportation doesn't use any sort of in between space.  It's instantaneous movement. :)

Offline hariman

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Re: The Ins and Outs of Subspace Pockets.
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2011, 09:57:24 pm »
That clarifies a lot.

I still wonder about the size limits of subspace pockets and entrances.

I'm also wondering if there are ways to use both Subspace and the Void in combat or infiltration beyond the obvious methods that Quinn already uses.

I've got the feeling that for combat purposes, teleportation is probably the better, easier, and faster option.
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Offline Shippou-chan

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Re: The Ins and Outs of Subspace Pockets.
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2011, 10:08:19 pm »
There's something in me that wants to create an explanation for teleportation logistics.

Since the only locations involved are From and To, the two locations would have to be directly connected to each other (i.e. they would momentarily be the exact some location)for an instant, while the teleporter shifted from the From and to the To.  They would have moved without moving.

There's a lot missing from that though, but whatever the scientific explanation would be, the practical upshot would be this.  "Instantaneous Movement"

At some point, some of these things will simply have to be treated as "magic".   (Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.)

Q:How does Lucas control gravitational forces?  A: He just does.
Q:How does Darrik generate his energy blast?  A: Internally through an unknown process.
Q:How does teleportation work?  A: Energy is expended to instantly move the target to another location using a process we don't understand.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 10:16:52 pm by Shippou-chan »
The Fidael Family - Noiya, Taisha, Rutilus, Rokfriez, and Double-Q
Rifalia Mekiska - Socialite Revolutionary
Leikki Biegle - Painfully Shy Mouse Mechanic
Amala Kanara - Highly Competitive and Mischievous Special Ops Cheetah
Rhiadi Kaelynn - Graduate Level Education Major
Krytus Yami - Intimidating Security Personnel
Jyala Oppa - Cheerful Otter Athlete
Sharib Akhim - Shelved - Proud and Grumpy Ram (but not a bad guy)
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Offline Shippou-chan

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Re: The Ins and Outs of Subspace Pockets.
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2011, 10:31:09 pm »
Aaah, came up with some questions concerning teleportation.

1) Does teleportation have a cool-down period, and if so, about how long (typically)?

2) Is there such a thing as teleportation denial technology which can prevent people from teleporting into an area (or out of it)?

3) Can a person teleported against their will?  (Based on the intro of Satin and Silk, the answer seems to be 'yes')

4) Can someone use teleportation to instantaneously swap places with someone?


I still want to think of teleporting as a process of making your location and the target destination as a single location, then then shifting to the destination in an instant, but that is probably over-thinking it.

Imagine you're a dot in the middle of a piece of flat paper.  Teleporting would be somehow folding a corner onto the center of the paper where you are, transferring to the corner where it touches, then letting the paper go back to its normal flat state again.
The Fidael Family - Noiya, Taisha, Rutilus, Rokfriez, and Double-Q
Rifalia Mekiska - Socialite Revolutionary
Leikki Biegle - Painfully Shy Mouse Mechanic
Amala Kanara - Highly Competitive and Mischievous Special Ops Cheetah
Rhiadi Kaelynn - Graduate Level Education Major
Krytus Yami - Intimidating Security Personnel
Jyala Oppa - Cheerful Otter Athlete
Sharib Akhim - Shelved - Proud and Grumpy Ram (but not a bad guy)
Fictional Characters - Such as Ruti might read.