Author Topic: Why the Cyantian's efforts to contact Earth may not be a good idea  (Read 2763 times)

Offline Eboreg

  • Sr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 481
  • Dumbass
    • View Profile
I've studied Terran History for a good part of my life and have become quite the expert at it. One of the main themes was that the civilizations that didn't aggressively snatch up every natural resource they could, including land, tended to become prey to those that did. That was the basis for the imperialistic expansion of the Western European nations after the Renaissance, including the US. In fact, even though the concept of Manifest Destiny is now conceived to be one of the great evils of our past, it is because of Manifest Destiny that America is the most influential nation on Earth and is capable of protecting its ideals and interests abroad.

With that in I mind, I should note that there are several uninhabited continents on Cyantia (the Rastin negotiated with Alpha to set up a colony on one of them) and the planet is filled to the brim with a VERY valuable natural resource, Cyantium. Add to that the fact that there are several nations on Earth suffering a crippling amount of overpopulation and some that would love to gain an edge against the US using whatever means necessary and you have all the ingredients for a geopolitical Charlie Foxtrot on Cyantia that leaves the natives at the bottom of the food chain.

China and Russia are likely going to aggressively colonize various uninhabited sectors of the planet forcing the US to respond in kind so as not to fall behind in terms of natural resources and land. Meanwhile, the Cyantians do not have access to nearly the amount of land or men as any of these powers making it so that they can only watch as their planet gets ruthlessly exploited.

Heck, this move may have consequences on the galactic stage due to the fact that Cyantia and most of its resources have come under the control of a much more warlike and ambitious race than the original inhabitants. The Cyantians seem to have a policy of keeping their planet a nature reserve and had enough power to enforce that. Now, the Terrans want to use that power to expand their political clout throughout the known universe so the power balance of interplanetary relations may shift drastically.
"Combat is the crack cocaine of all excitement highs-with crack cocaine costs."
-Karl Marlantes, Vietnam veteran

Offline Lillowen

  • Mars RPG Approved
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 657
  • Bunnyfox
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Cyantian's efforts to contact Earth may not be a good idea
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2014, 11:57:25 am »
This assumes direct instead of indirect contact.  At the present time, as far as can be seen, the Cyantians have no intent to do so, apparently planning to use Mars as a cut-out point.  With the ability to seal the gates, there is a fair likelihood that this will be enough, as I would imagine that the Cyantians will not at the current time allow immigration or possibly even tourism to their homeworld through the gates.  It has been pointed out that there is (for Cyantia, at least, possibly extending further, data unknown) no FTL method aside from these fixed-point gates (though apparently efficient STL does exist).

Add to this the intent to provide to Earth not merely a terraformed, human-habitable Mars, but Venus as well.  This would give mankind the ability for a) rapid in-system travel (necessary for effective transportation to and from these planets), two planetary resource points, access to Luna and the trojan asteroids, and, with likely fairly little additional effort, access to the asteroid belt.  Even at its' most expansionistic, the nations of Earth would likely find the new glut of resources (of all forms) a handful for an extended period of time.

All this with only (and that's quite an only) access to efficient sublight travel within the star system.  Assuming rabid land grabbing, there will not be enough population on hand to guard the vastly expanded borders in anything resembling efficiency.  The logisitcs, also, of providing the resource extraction, refining, and shipping infrastructure will also eat manpower and time, plus the development of the shipping infrastructure necessary to handle this, and indeed the manufacturing lines to make the transportation and infrastructure.

Is it likely that Cyantia itself would come under threat?  It IS a possibility, but one not as likely as the Academy itself ending up occupied and its' gate links closed by retreating Cyantian forces, or, equally possible, forced closed from the other side, though the Cyantians do not appear the sort to ruthlessly cut off anyone if there's a hope of extraction (plus the generally upbeat, positive-moral tone of the comic would also seem to prevent this).
The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired.  --Stephen W. Hawking : "A Brief History of Time"

Some people are like slinkys They aren't good for anything but you just can't help but smile when you see them tumbling down the stairs.

Offline Eboreg

  • Sr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 481
  • Dumbass
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Cyantian's efforts to contact Earth may not be a good idea
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2014, 12:37:36 pm »
Add to this the intent to provide to Earth not merely a terraformed, human-habitable Mars, but Venus as well.

Completely forgot about that. :facepalm:

However, this really just delays the Terran's intentions to exploit Cyantia. Of course, the use of the word "just" would be a bit of a misnomer since this would give the Cyantians time to take more control of their own planet, the question is whether they would be willing to do so. There's still the fact that Cyantia is filled to the gills with a very valuable natural resource and that alone may be enough to cause something similar to the gold rush of the American Wild West.

Also, I was under the impression that the Cyantians don't have control over the gates. If I recall correctly, there are several small-scale ones that teleport between the grounds of Earth and Cyantia and they may provide a much more viable way of connecting between the two areas in the style of death by a thousand papercuts. Also, Tiff did say that shutting down a exoplanetary gate would take an inordinate amount of firepower and I don't think that the Cyantians would have access to such weaponry.
"Combat is the crack cocaine of all excitement highs-with crack cocaine costs."
-Karl Marlantes, Vietnam veteran

Offline daemonschile

  • Administrator
  • The Forum Ate My Soul
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,153
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Cyantian's efforts to contact Earth may not be a good idea
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2014, 07:26:41 pm »
I imagine there must be some sort of control over the gates... otherwise you'd have the bigger issue of other races, like the Rastin, going the other way to claim the new habitable, resource-heavy planets from the wimpy Terrans.  ;D

And just because they haven't been shown using an inordinate amount of firepower doesn't necessarily mean they don't have it should the need arise.

I believe she mentioned once that between current Akaelae and Campus Safari, they found all the gates on Cyantia and closed most of them... so they'd know exactly where they're coming through if they tried that route.
Prenna D'tella/17/Calico/Veterinary Student
Shyssa Wynd/19/Jilaic/Human Studies

Offline Shippou-chan

  • King of Foxes & NPCs
  • Administrator
  • Postaholic
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,740
  • Chatin Suiter #4
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Cyantian's efforts to contact Earth may not be a good idea
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2014, 08:11:04 pm »
While there might be some naivete amongst the Cyantians, they realize that power grabs are a likely possibility and will probably have something in place to combat it.

Of primary importance is the fact that they don't intend to give Terra unfettered access to the spacegate, and have the means to "lock" it if needed.

I also recall they planned on overseeing the process of turning over the planets, although that has with it its own difficulties.  It could still go any number of ways, and there is no way to really predict how the process will look or work out.

Bear in mind also, the writer has creative control over the details, so that the lack of clarity on future events means she could plausibly go any number of directions with it.
The Fidael Family - Noiya, Taisha, Rutilus, Rokfriez, and Double-Q
Rifalia Mekiska - Socialite Revolutionary
Leikki Biegle - Painfully Shy Mouse Mechanic
Amala Kanara - Highly Competitive and Mischievous Special Ops Cheetah
Rhiadi Kaelynn - Graduate Level Education Major
Krytus Yami - Intimidating Security Personnel
Jyala Oppa - Cheerful Otter Athlete
Sharib Akhim - Shelved - Proud and Grumpy Ram (but not a bad guy)
Fictional Characters - Such as Ruti might read.

Offline hariman

  • Mars RPG Approved
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,726
  • I look forward to it with glee and trepidation!
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Cyantian's efforts to contact Earth may not be a good idea
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2014, 10:09:49 pm »
For the "empty" continents on Cyantia, there are already sentient native inhabitants of various species living there.

That's an additional reason that Alpha refused to let the Rastins land there, beyond the Rastins being bad neighbors.

So, it stands to reason that the "empty" continent is regarded as "already inhabited", and that there's a hands off policy in place, with treaties to back that up.

Also, I'm pretty sure that travel between Mars and Cyantia is mainly done by ships, and not direct gates.
I'm ashamed of myself. I didn't realize that Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure was a spoof of Doctor Who until 2011!

Offline Shippou-chan

  • King of Foxes & NPCs
  • Administrator
  • Postaholic
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,740
  • Chatin Suiter #4
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Cyantian's efforts to contact Earth may not be a good idea
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2014, 08:22:03 am »
Ah yes.  You'll definitely need a spaceship to reach the gateways, but the gateways are the crucial element for travelling between the Terran and Cyantian systems.

I don't know if the ships require any special equipment to operate with the gate, but I don't think they do, aside from some way to signal the gate.  (I think any real-time communications is a function of the gate and not the ship.)  This is, of course, conjecture.  I could be wrong.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 08:31:49 am by Shippou-chan »
The Fidael Family - Noiya, Taisha, Rutilus, Rokfriez, and Double-Q
Rifalia Mekiska - Socialite Revolutionary
Leikki Biegle - Painfully Shy Mouse Mechanic
Amala Kanara - Highly Competitive and Mischievous Special Ops Cheetah
Rhiadi Kaelynn - Graduate Level Education Major
Krytus Yami - Intimidating Security Personnel
Jyala Oppa - Cheerful Otter Athlete
Sharib Akhim - Shelved - Proud and Grumpy Ram (but not a bad guy)
Fictional Characters - Such as Ruti might read.

Offline Eboreg

  • Sr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 481
  • Dumbass
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Cyantian's efforts to contact Earth may not be a good idea
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2014, 10:41:48 am »
For the "empty" continents on Cyantia, there are already sentient native inhabitants of various species living there.

I'm pretty sure the Terrans will care about as much as they did when overrunning the paleolithic cultures on Earth. (That's the impression I got, these other sentients are still in the Stone Age of technological development)
"Combat is the crack cocaine of all excitement highs-with crack cocaine costs."
-Karl Marlantes, Vietnam veteran

Offline hariman

  • Mars RPG Approved
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,726
  • I look forward to it with glee and trepidation!
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Cyantian's efforts to contact Earth may not be a good idea
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2014, 11:04:33 am »
I'm pretty sure the Terrans will care about as much as they did when overrunning the paleolithic cultures on Earth. (That's the impression I got, these other sentients are still in the Stone Age of technological development)

*Sighs.*

No, Eboreg. They won't have the chance to do that.

Because, even if terrans manage to get TO cyantia, it's clear that the Akaelaes (Who own a COUNTRY) and likely the Mounty forces, at minimum, GUARD THE CONTINENT FROM SUCH EXPLOITATION.

Which was my point. That you missed/ignored.

Also: The Cyantian Tech Transfer to Earth is going to be limited and monitored to PREVENT such dramatic shifts in power, AND the cyantians obviously have better forms of energy production that will also likely alleviate a lot of resource issues, which will prevent conflict.
I'm ashamed of myself. I didn't realize that Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure was a spoof of Doctor Who until 2011!

Offline HEX the Dark

  • Mars RPG Approved
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,681
  • philosopher in sheep's clothing
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Cyantian's efforts to contact Earth may not be a good idea
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2014, 03:12:33 pm »
Also, "empty" means "empty" in the sense that most of them are dense forests or vast jungles. They're "empty" as the Amazons basin or the norwegian fjell are empty: region where it's hard and/or impossible to build a home.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 03:59:56 pm by Eboreg »
HEX der Dunkle
Aries et Lupus
sorry for the bad english

Offline Eboreg

  • Sr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 481
  • Dumbass
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Cyantian's efforts to contact Earth may not be a good idea
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2014, 03:41:08 pm »
@hariman: Granted.
"Combat is the crack cocaine of all excitement highs-with crack cocaine costs."
-Karl Marlantes, Vietnam veteran

Offline HEX the Dark

  • Mars RPG Approved
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,681
  • philosopher in sheep's clothing
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Cyantian's efforts to contact Earth may not be a good idea
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2014, 03:54:49 pm »
as the starter of the topic (at least in this forum) you can edit posts.
HEX der Dunkle
Aries et Lupus
sorry for the bad english

Offline Eboreg

  • Sr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 481
  • Dumbass
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Cyantian's efforts to contact Earth may not be a good idea
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2014, 04:05:18 pm »
as the starter of the topic (at least in this forum) you can edit posts.

:facepalm: That does not sound like a good idea to me. Too much room for abuse. For example, that rule means that I'm the de facto moderator of the Cyantian Chronicles GNIP board and we all know how much of a bad idea that is.




In other news, mass hysteria has erupted amongst the catgirl community.
"Combat is the crack cocaine of all excitement highs-with crack cocaine costs."
-Karl Marlantes, Vietnam veteran

Offline Shippou-chan

  • King of Foxes & NPCs
  • Administrator
  • Postaholic
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,740
  • Chatin Suiter #4
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Cyantian's efforts to contact Earth may not be a good idea
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2014, 04:15:15 pm »
The settings for the GNIP forum are designed around giving the topic creator greater control over their threads, since it might be a story they are writing..  It does not extend to topics others started.

You won't see many other subforums with that setting.  This can be changed if it is abused, but will be left alone otherwise.

I will note my rule of thumb is to leave others posts as in tact as possible, and usually mark my edit.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 04:35:34 pm by Shippou-chan »
The Fidael Family - Noiya, Taisha, Rutilus, Rokfriez, and Double-Q
Rifalia Mekiska - Socialite Revolutionary
Leikki Biegle - Painfully Shy Mouse Mechanic
Amala Kanara - Highly Competitive and Mischievous Special Ops Cheetah
Rhiadi Kaelynn - Graduate Level Education Major
Krytus Yami - Intimidating Security Personnel
Jyala Oppa - Cheerful Otter Athlete
Sharib Akhim - Shelved - Proud and Grumpy Ram (but not a bad guy)
Fictional Characters - Such as Ruti might read.

Offline HEX the Dark

  • Mars RPG Approved
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,681
  • philosopher in sheep's clothing
    • View Profile
Re: Why the Cyantian's efforts to contact Earth may not be a good idea
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2014, 04:19:08 pm »
Also, you see when something is edited. And god help the poor soul who edits my posts to their advantage >:(
HEX der Dunkle
Aries et Lupus
sorry for the bad english